OG...Gone?

[Reddington]

What happened to the OG? I know it collapsed but why? Did too many people leave, did people stop playing or was it just too much work. I saw the website was down when I tried to check out the forums a week ago.

[eyelleye]

What happened to the OG? I know it collapsed but why? Did too many people leave, did people stop playing or was it just too much work. I saw the website was down when I tried to check out the forums a week ago.

Its kinda a long story there Redd... Suffice to say, the OG no longer exists & the members have been scattered. I have my own version of events, others have theirs... Some members are still with dgfleet I believe (www.dgfleet.com)... others have formed a new PA based off of... hmmm... dantooine I think. I, myself, havent logged into the game in roughly a month. Sadly, it doesnt have the appeal for me much at this time. I have been playing a lot of Knights of the Old Republic and been enjoying that quite a bit!

Anyways, if you are interested, I'll send you an email with my version of events (as I said, they are likely to differ from others). Outside of playing a few other games, Ive been spending a little time working on re-doing this website. I had purchased some additional tools to help me improve the old OG site shortly before its collapse... the improvements would have been greatly beneficial I believe, but some folks had their own agenda... and time ran out for us... for me. Such is life... shit happens. '-)

Anyways, good hearing from yah again! Merry Christmas my friend!

eye

[Reddington]

I've been playing Star Wars: KOTOR too. Sad the the OG's gone though. I thought that was a really strong PA. Merry Chistmas and Happy New Year!

[eyelleye]

Yeah, it was at one time. Still... shit happens, quite frankley. Im sure those that are still in "power" are pleased with their handiwork... Oh well, was good times while it lasted. I had a lot of fun, and it was a rewarding experience... it was always a pleasure to lead y'all and its something I miss quite a bit... still, all good things must come to an end I suppose.

Take care of yourself! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!

eye

[Reddington]

The OG was my first Guild and it was lots of fun. Sadly there aren't too many online games I'm willing to pay a monthly fee for. When I woke up each morning I'd check the forums and post some replies. :( I miss that...

[eyelleye]

Yeah... I used to spend WAAAAYYY too much time on the forums. I enjoyed the friendships with everyone in the guild more than the game itself really. Don't get me wrong, I like the game... but, I dont think its everything it coulda been or (hopefully) will be. Right now, Im most looking forward to the Space Expansion. Vehicles just came out... I made one this last weekend and rode around on it for a couple minutes, it was a hoot! I still like the game, but... its just not the same anymore. On the plus side tho is my extra time to do other things. I am enjoying that at least, and taking some time off from SWG has been good as well, gives me better perspective on things I guess. The OG was my first guild as a head... I didnt do everything right, but there were some things that worked. In retrospect... I'll take what I have learned from this experience and apply it when something else comes up in the future (whatever that may be).

Speaking of which... are there any games y'all is playin online these days? I've got a few, maybe we could go a round or two or something sometime...

'-)

eye

[Reddington]

I haven't been playing anything online since SWG. I'm still using my Dad's computer and it just dosen't get a very good connection. Also I got an Xbox in Oct. and have been playing KOTOR, MGS, and MechAssualt.

I enjoyed SWG and being in a guild made the experience ten times better but with a slow connection and a lack of content I'm gonna wait before I resubscirbe to SWG. Without a guild or friends in SWG it would be quite boring so I'm gonna wait till my internet connection is better or they add more content.

:confused:
P.S. Do you use a or an when refering to Xbox. A Xbox is the 'correct' way but an Xbox sounds like it fits. :confused:

P.P.S
Anyways, if you are interested, I'll send you an email with my version of events (as I said, they are likely to differ from others).

I would like to know why the OG collapsed, form your perspective.

[eyelleye]

Yanno, I havent played much in the way of "Live" games on my Xbox (and Id probably call it AN Xbox). My gammer tag, as you can probably guess, is eyelleye. Ive got mech assault but havent played it in forever... so many games, so little time, hehe... SWG is alright, tho I do hope more things get added in the future, to be certain. The new vehicles are pretty cool... but, quite frankly... Id like to see some changes. I look forward to the space expansion most at this point, as I hope it adds a new dimension to the game... and I loved xwing & tie fighter way back in the day (still in my top 5 games ever). One of the things that bothers me about SWG is that there is no feeling that you are making a difference in the great war. There is no sense of the imperial might (or backlash against) at all. Essentially, they have created this beautiful world, where you can do a bunch of stuff... you can be a rebel or imperial or neutral... but thats about it. There is no real crime, there is no real sense of danger being one group or the other, there is no feeling of the universe being ALIVE much at all. There is much they have not been able to nail down, in terms of that... in terms of being "Star Warsy." I have hopes that they will fix these problems in time... but its going to take time.

When UO & EQ were released, they were in a similar state (at least I can certainly vouch for UO... I was there)... UO was buggy, slow... not much for content, etc... But, when you are the first couple of this type out of the gate, folks don't have necessarily high expectations. Now, on the other hand, we're used to these games... they have raised the bar, so to speak. SWG has to compete with them... yet they've been around for considerably longer. Ahhh well, all in due time I suppose, all in due time... we can only hope...

Oh, and I'll send you an email in regards to your request. '-)

eye

[Reddington]

I bought IceWind Dale 2 Tuesday and have been loving it. Since SWG I've mainly played Strategies and RPGs. I like ID2 much more than Diablo 2.

In regards to SWG I think they need to give the game a better sense of purpose. I haven't played any other MMOPRGs than SWG but if you attack and kill someone of the opposing faction, (PC or NPC) you have no impact on the continuality of SWG. When you kill a rebel NPC they respwan somewhere else. Also the faction percentage have little effect on the game's spawn points. If Every player Imperial lived on naboo there would still be lots ofRebel NPC spawns on Naboo and the same amount on tat. It would be better if missons/factions gave a better sense of purpose other than badges or money. Too little sense of accomplishment after destroying an enemy base knowing it will respwan. They should have large, powerful bases spawn and once they're destroyed they won't respwan on the planet until saw 3% of the planets popultaion changes towards their faction, through offworlders or more people joining their faction

[eyelleye]

Well, I've finally managed to finish KOTOR (in the weee weee hours of the morning... errr last night). I've got a few other games I want to play now, but Im thinking I might give SWG a try once again.

I heard that the IceWind Dale games were supposed to be good, but I've never played em... I want to get back into playing NeverWinter Nights again, but I can only take so much of that game in a given sitting. There is sooooo much text to read & at the resolution I play the game, its hard for me to read it! Still, its got a great story to it... reminds me of a not quite so slick version of KOTOR really.

I agree with yah on SWG tho... I'd like to see more things that contribute to the overall "war" effort.. and the individuals place therein. As it is now, we have a great universe to play in... but there is no feeling of this galactic struggle. Its as if the developers said... "ahhh, the players can take care of that..." and then they failed to provide any tools for said players to do just that. My feeling is that there are lots of little bits to SWG that make it a great game, but the overall cohesiveness of it is lacking. There are many individual things I like doing, but quite frankly... it doesnt make one feel a part of the universe... just visiting.

[Reddington]

I agree with the problem of reading text for a long time on the moniter. I've gotten quite far in KOTOR but after I faced Malak for the first time and Bastila fought him the game freezes. After I get away and destory the enemy fighters it freezes after Carth talks. I tried to clean the disk and hope that works.

SWG became too much repetition for my liking. After we established a base we did little other than horde resources and hunt for fur and the like. I would feel great about gather resources if it let you play a part in the Civil War but that may be a distant dream. A greater effect on the galaxy would give Imperials and Rebels must more reason to work as one single force. If sides could capture planets I would be back at SWG in an instant. There could be goals needed to caputure a planet and then players could give resources to the 'planetary government' to increase security and military. A Lucas Arts member could act as the planatary governer effect more players than by acting as Luke, or Han.
Well, now back to ID2. :)

[eyelleye]

Redd... be sure to patch your KOTOR. I forget what the latest patch is exactly, but there is one out for it. Its supposed to fix some of the crash bugs. I found KOTOR to be somewhat crash happy anyways (at least once per session for me) but then I seem to have occasional issues with my vid card (well that & it could be my mild overclock too.. hehe). If its crashing at the same point all the time, definitely get the patch. Anytime the game crashed for me, I could go back & play it again and get past whatever point it crashed. Irritating, yes... but still playable.

SWG is very repititious I think. In fact, thats one of the more common complaints in most reviews that I have read on it. Pretty much they all seem to say, yeah it looks good... yeah it has a cool crafting system... but there is nothing to do. My take on the whole holocron / jedi thing of late is that its an attempt by the devs to give ppl a reason to keep grinding professions (as their aint all that much else to do really). In part, the "boringness" of having nothing for us to do after we built our base was really a fault of the leadership of the OG. We could have done a better job of providing fun things to do as a PA... but alas that is something I would say we failed at. That failure was, in my mind, a result of two things. One: inexperienced leadership to the point of we were left with the inevitable "now what?" & Two: a failure of the game to provide a better answer to that "now what" question. Promises were made through the year leading up to launch about the support of Player Associations in the game... and when we finally got the game, half the stuff for said PAs didnt even work...

Everyone has their own ideas on how to fix the game, but... unfortunately, I dont think any of them seem to agree with each other. And for every 10 folks that agree on an idea there are at least 20 that will argue it sucks. I dont envy the position the devs are in these days... but then again I dont know that I would want to cut them much slack either. This is their creation... any fault with said creation lies with them!

I guess Im kinda like you in that I would like to see more of the Civil War stuff. I would like to know that if I am a part of one faction or another, it makes a difference. I would like to see more large scale engagements by npc groups against each other that I could jump in on... or perhaps... I dunno... Id just like to feel that if I choose to be a rebel or an imp, that it makes some sort of difference in MY gaming experience... I suppose its somewhat of that age old feeling of being included, of making a difference... of feeling one matters. Thus far, I havent gotten the impression that the individual players matter (certainly not in the civil war). I havent felt like a part of the universe, a player in the game... Im just more window dressing and a money fund...

I hope these things become corrected with time. I have a feeling that SWG will have a fair ammount of longevity, so... after a while there should be some logical progression. It takes time, certainly... but... how long do I have to wait?

[Reddington]

I think SWG will become as popular/good as Everquest once the devs fix the problems. I understand that the devs have many voices to quiet but the reson I choose it over EQ or AO was because of the Civil War and because I knew some about Star Wars. I haden't played any other MMORPG because it seemed too focused on lvling so you can get to the next area. When I saw SWG I thought, "cool, ranged weapons, Rebel/Imperial War, and something to do other than lvl."

As for KOTOR I have it for Xbox and don't have LIVE yet so patches won't help. I'm gonna try to see if it will work on my other TV and try unplugging it for a minute. Also it isn't freezing. It's just that the conversation stops. Carth keeps moving his head to and fro but the camera won't move to the next character to talk. I also ask Lucas Arts for help and should get an email soon.

[eyelleye]

Ohhh... you got it for the Xbox... Hmm... thats another issue altogether then... might be a bad disc. I have a couple here and there for the xbox that did that sorta stuff. Sometimes its a corrupted game file as well. I bought Apex racing cuz I thought Id get to design my own cars, to some degree... (of course, as I and many others found out, not true), and that game had some real bad lockup problems on my xbox. I went and read some forums and, as it turned out, a bad save game file would cause that. I deleted the save game and then I could get past this one particular spot. Of course, after playing for a bit longer, same problem arose again at a different spot (which was right about the time I quit playing the game). Hopefully lucasarts will have an answer for yah... thats a bummer man!

[Reddington]

I tried playing it from an older save but the same problem arose. Mabye if I deleate the file though. That might work.

[eyelleye]

If you aren't too far along in the game, I would try deleting your save games (all the files for KOTOR stored on the Xbox HDD). That would clear out that problem and help to ID a problem disc I would think. I suspect that any Tech Support would probably try to get you to do that anyways, so might be something to think about anyways... either way, like I said, if you aren't too far along, worth a shot.

[Jess-e]

Hey guys,
It's been too long... I'm not entirely sure about the details on the 'collapse' , but what I do know for sure, is that I had a shit load of fun. Me and eye get into one o' dem nostalgic conversations once in a while, where you forget the rotten parts and think back about those fruits... We had some good stuff going on here at some points, and it's good to see you're still alive red... Seems like yesterday that I was trying to catch up on your tier 1 Creature Handler skills as you were showing me the arts NW of Restuss... Or how I was the one that shot the torton nest by accident on my first day, and got a bunch of us killed and never dared come out for it (whoops hehehe)
I've been playing a lot of KOTOR too lately... I think I completed it a total of 4 times now, doing every single sub quest as well... At least it lived up to my expectations unlike a certain spineless game that never had the Star Wars feel to it...

What I'm waiting for atm is for the WoW beta to open... I have a buddy or two who are following the development pretty closely, I've been told this is a game to look forward to... (even though that sounds so painfully familiar)
I'll drop you guys a line as soon as I hear something worth telling if yanno what I mean... *drops the guantlet* (wonder if anyone remembered that...)

Keep it coo

[Reddington]

I'm gonna keep my eye on SWG for a while still. I think all the MMORPGs that have and will come out will have a similar feels to SWG. They'll be bugged when they're first released and then will get a cult following like EQ. I've been back playing Morrowind again. Also had a bunch of time off from school. We got Thurs./Fri. off because on thursday we had an inch of snow and Fri. it was just really cold. Then Mon. was Martain Luther King Jr. day so we got that off too. Sadly next week we have to take our midterms. :(

A good note is that we get to sing, 'Hey Jude', in choir. :)
The Bettles never wrote a bad song...EVER!!!!

[eyelleye]

The Bettles never wrote a bad song...EVER!!!!

First off its the Beatles... and secondly... never? I dunno about that. Course, I cant say as I consider myself a big beatles fan anyways.. =)

[ryan]

Hey, lane myer here...Are any of you still playing SWG?!? Man that game was a disaster...

I've been playing ffxi since the 1st day it came out(October 1st) and it had pretty much no bugs. The game is perfectly balanced(and you could tell the dev's knew what to do and had experience making RPG's) but they lack a lot of customization which i think is very important for mmorpgs, and it got very repetitive after awhile( kill, gain level, get stronger, kill harder monsters, gain lvl, get stronger, etc.) so i quit about 3 days ago, giving my extremely valuable items to some clueless noob...

A military simulator type game called Soldner is coming out in about a month and I'm getting that...

I think Ultima X will be a very good mmorpg when it comes out this summer...They have a lot of experience making RPG's(from the ultima series...)...I think one of the main reasons that SWG failed was the lack of experience the dev's had with RPG's...You should never hire inexperienced engineers to build a skyscraper and you should never hire inexperienced dev's to make something that is expected to be the best(which could of been SWG)

[eyelleye]

LOL...

Well, I still play SWG, but then again, my accounts are prepaid for the year... so... at least I can say that its getting better, but the process is SLOW... Right now, I figure I'll give it until the space expansion (tho when my year is up, I'll be switching to month to month subscriptions instead if the SE isnt out by then).

I've started seeing some previews and such about Soldner... looks interesting.

The next MMO Im interested in is WoW. Ive read some reviews of what the next UO (Ultima X) is going to be like and Im not sure Im real keen on the concept. Most of the Devs of SWG are ex UO & EQ folks... I think they knew what they were doing in crafting an RPG... but... rather than focus on some key things, they went with the "lets include EVERYTHING" in the game... which I, personally, think was a mistake. My take on SWG is that there was too much feature creep and not enough focus. Consequently, we have a game that looks good, has all kindsa crap in it... but isnt necessarily all that much fun. You dont really feel like you are in the star wars universe... there isnt that tension... that sence of war... that feeling like the world is alive. Ahh well, as they say... shit happens. I do certainly hope that, over time, SWG can be corrected... but Im still not quite sure how much they can do to fix it. I keep thinking of it in comparison to KOTOR... and while its probably not fair to make that comparison... KOTOR lets you feel like you are in the SW Universe... while SWG just feels flat to me.

Oh well, Im hoping Blizz doesnt screw up WoW... I think it has potential... we'll see tho. '-)

Btw... good to hear from y'all again!

[eyelleye]

The more I have thought about it, the more I know some folks want to know what happened to "us." The further it gets from the chain of events that transpired, the less I seem to give a shit what the other parties think. Should those other parties read this... my advice to them is "fuck off!" My advice to the rest of you is this... keep an open mind. You can believe their lies or not... you can believe what I say or not... quite likely, somewhere in the middle lies the truth... but quite frankly... Im just recalling things as I remember them... so this is my story:

Here is my version of what went wrong... take it as it is.. ‘-)

Where did we go wrong? Where, oh where, have the good times gone? LOL… I
think its hard to pinpoint one defining moment as our downfall. In fact, I
would argue it was a lot of little things here and there, along the way. We
had a lot of good ideas, but little practical experience. We had laid out a
lot of plans, pre-game, without a solid understanding of how they would work
out. They seemed like good ideas, and in fact, many of them worked out as
planned… but there were others that did not work out so well.

>From an organizational point of view, having everyone separated into distinct
divisions was not, entirely, a good idea. For the most part, folks wanted to
do a bit of this and a bit of that… and most of the time were doing duties not
necessarily relegated to their division. Most everyone liked the structure &
organization we had, but they also wanted to be free to do other things.
Where this most frequently came to a head was with the Ministry of Defense
folks, as usually people from other divisions would be participating in areas
strictly defined as MoD. We did not realize this particular failure of our
organization until approximately 2 months into the game… after we had
established a PA hall and began to turn our attention to other pursuits.

This brings to light another problem. We had our plans for launch mapped out
to some degree, but we did not have everything laid out in stone. We knew we
wanted to establish a PA hall, and we knew what we would need to do that. We
set to work accomplishing this goal, but once it was completed… we were left
with a “now what?” We knew we wanted to establish ourselves as being a strong
PA on whatever planet we chose… but exactly how to go about that… nobody
knew. I had asked the council for assistance in these matters, but there were
none who wanted to step up to the plate really. After roughly 2 months or so…
self interest had pretty much taken hold of individual PA members. Most folks
were off doing their own thing, and there was not much in the way of guild
events, etc. When we tried to organize such things, some folks wanted to go,
others could care less. Some folks donated to the PA fund… others didn’t.
It’s the nature of the beast, all gaming organizations are, in effect,
volunteer groups. You cannot order/force folks to do anything really.

Those are, in effect, some of our biggest failures in my mind. I had plans to
fix a number of those… but, unfortunately, was not given enough time to
correct them. I had purchased some extensions for dreamweaver (what I use for
web creation) that would enable me to write a Content Management System in
php. I had used a couple of CMS Portals on the site (what we had at the end
was one of these)… they worked, but not quite like I had wanted. I had
intended to make a sort of database for all the members, whereby we could
store a picture of the person, their rank, etc… it would also be used for
displaying medals & accolades. We had some preliminary graphics on these, as
well as beginnings of what medals would be given out for, etc. Additionally,
I wanted to create a means where folks could input their character stats on
the website… so that they could track progress, etc. Also, each division was
going to be given their own sub-site… something to make them have a unique
feel. I had wanted to solve the problem of the divisions… but was never
entirely sure how to do this. We needed some separation, and it was a means
to assist with management. This, of course, assumes you have folks in those
lead positions who would assist with the management of their divisions. This
was not always the case.

I have always thought that the potential of the OG was great… far greater than
we were perhaps given credit for. We had the workings of a solid group… just
not enough time to get it all together. This, of course, begs the question…
why not? Well, the short version of that, I would argue, is I wasn’t given
enough time… I did, and still do, feel I was undermined by my most trusted
folks. If anyone let me down, the blame falls directly upon Rhea & Indy…

To tell this part of the story… I suppose I shall have to give a bit of
history… according to me of course (I’m quite certain their version of events
would be different… and who is to say they are not also correct in some of
what they say… I am not infalliable, nor is my memory 100%. I freely admit
that… so keep that in mind, as these are my versions of events). The
beginning of the end started almost when I promoted Rhea to be my 2nd in
command. I had opened up the opportunity to the members of my council at the
time. When it came down to it, there were really only 2 considerations for
the Job. Rhea & Swiss. Swiss had been a friend since the early days of the
OG. He’d been around for quite a while and had, in fact, been somewhat of a
mentor to Rhea. I got along with him well, tho we’d had our disagreements.
I, in the end, chose Rhea over Swiss for several reasons. One, although I
liked swiss… I felt I needed someone who would help me get the job done.
Swiss always seemed to drag his feet a bit when I needed something done.
Rhea, on the other hand, got it done quickly (although had a tendency to
utilize and slightly modify something someone else had done… something I began
to figure out after a while)… Swiss had also cut off all communication from
the OG for a week or so without reason… he had been upset at a course of
action I was persuing (namely wanting the PA to be Overt Imps 100% of the
time). These were a couple of things I did not think would be beneficial to
the 2nd in command position. As a result, I chose rhea…

Swiss and I talked shortly after the collapse of the OG and even he commented
that shortly thereafter rhea changed. She became, in some ways, a bitch.
Demanding, yelled a bit… not as friendly, etc. She claimed to want nothing to
do with power, yet her actions said otherwise every single time. She loved
the limelight & attention however she could get it. Last spring, before
release…she helped us work on our charter, etc… all seemed well… we worked on
our policies, getting things in line, and overall just tried to have a good
time. Shortly before release, Swiss left. He was going back home over the
summer break, wouldn’t be getting the game anytime soon… and overall, just
wouldn’t have time… Right close to release, Indy arrived… a friend of rhea’s
from EQ (of which she apparently has a fair amount of experience in but never
talks about). Rhea always said how good he was at this that and the other
thing… he should be promoted, blah blah blah… The more I talked with him, the
more I thought he was an OK guy… when SWG launched… things went well the first
week or so. I didn’t really notice anything out of the ordinary until we
relocated on Naboo…

After I started making houses and giving them away… well, at one point, Indy
lost his house. Rhea was taking the deeds from me and handing them out… she
was doing a better job at “mingling” than I was, mostly due to the fact that I
was grinding for that first month. In retrospect, this was probably a bad
idea, for the simple fact that Rhea had more face time. In the end, more
folks talked to rhea than myself… and while this would have been fine if
communication was flowing to me, it wasn’t. As it turns out, a lot of things
that made it up to rhea stopped there. She started doing things her way and
just not really mentioning it. I would prod from time to time and learn
things… I never, at that time, thought she was being deceptive on purpose…
just got busy and forgot. Now, I would call such thinking into question.

Anyways, the first time Indy lost his house due to not paying it up… rhea
intended to just try and slip by that this happened. She asked for several
small house deeds. I asked who they were for, and she rattled off names… when
I realized I was one name short, and asked about this one… that’s when she
begrudgingly mentioned who it was for. After this time, a couple more folks
lost their houses due to not realizing they were low on payment. I recall
making a post or something about this… chewing a little (as they weren’t the
easiest thing in the world to make completely by hand) etc… by this time, Rhea
was keeping a stock of deeds on hand to give out as necessary. The 2nd time
Indy lost his house, she didn’t mention anything about it. I forget exactly
what was going on at the time, but I was beginning to suspect she wasn’t
telling me the whole story on a few things. Consequently, I started looking
at the sql database that ran the forums. The PMs were encoded in plain-text
in the database, and while there were no names attatched, generally you could
figure out who was talking to who (took a bit of effort – so I only looked
when I thought someone was bullshitting me). Anyways, it was during this
peaking around that I found out about the 2nd house. When I confronted her
about this, she got mad, etc… but eventually we worked it out. My mistake was
bringing it up, as from then on, they kept most things off the PMs… which was
fine… if you didn’t want me to know about it, Id prefer you not use my own
site against me… Well, in the end, that’s what they did.

There were a number of times I asked her to do something for me, and if she
did not want to do it, it didn’t get done. Rhea was busy going out and having
fun doing what she wanted to do & spending time with indy. Whenever someone
asked about them two… she always denied it, but, as Im sure you know, their
relationship was obvious. I had no feelings about it one way or the other… as
long as business was taken care of, I didn’t care. Indy was helpful most of
the time, but he also worked against us. He was approached by a smugglers
group that was setup on the Tarq server. In the end, he was a member of their
council... and it was setup to control the flow of information & set slicing &
spice prices. Guild locations were bought and sold, etc… I am sure some
things about us were sold as well, though when I asked him about it, he denied
it. Rhea knew about this some time before indy finally told me about it… but
never said a word. Her loyalty was never towards me it would seem.

Early on, Berowe had said some rather insensitive remarks in regards to rhea
that I didn’t take to kindly on. True as tho they might have been… it was
disrespectful. He had been talking to Exar at the time… and Exar’s failure to
do much of anything about it & his failure to organize the dept, I fired him
for it. Later on, I ended up pressuring Ber to leave because he and rhea
never did get along. My feeling was to support those I placed my trust in,
those that I had selected… this would be my own undoing, as the feeling was
obviously not mutual.

MoD continued to be a problem dept. Avaudo tried his best to get it all
working right, but he also listened to Ber a lot. Ber did not have confidence
in his leadership… and I cant say I blame him all that much. We were
floundering internally. I wasn’t sure what our next focus should be… we had
accomplished much of our initial phase stuff, but seemed purposeless. I had
wanted to start organizing raids & badge hunts, but most were interested in
doing that themselves. Rhea became obsessed with badge persuit above all
else. When I tried to communicate that I wanted to start making this a guild
event sorta thing, she wasn’t interested… she wanted to just do it herself and
if you were there when she did it, fine… if not, fuck off. We had more than
one argument about it… Everyone kinda started doing their own thing and we
began to disintegrate I think. Around this time is when some folks started
leaving in ones and twos…

After the fact, I found out that Rhea had been talking with other guilds about
either being absorbed or merging approximately one month before our merger
with DG. As it would happen, Indy was going around and talking to folks about
creating a new PA (behind my back). In the end, one night, he sat down and
started to talk. I had been asking for ideas on how we could improve, etc…
and he basically said… here are your options: Merge with DG or Im taking my PA
Hall I have in my pack and 80% of the OG to form a new PA. Again, in
retrospect, I think I should have called his bluff. I know for a fact now
that he did indeed have a PA Hall… but I don’t know that he could have
garnered 80% of the guild… perhaps… perhaps not. As it was, I ended up
starting to talk with Valaar that night about a merger. We talked for around
4+ hours about it. He was going to make me his 2nd in command of SWG forces,
our website would become the SWG portion of DG, etc. Essentially, we would
just become a little bigger… and it’d all be peachy. After I made my post
about the merger, I got the 3rd degree from rhea about it (claiming to know
nothing)… I remember her saying in a PM very clearly “Good luck salvaging your
reputation in SWG.” We got things somewhat patched up I had thought after
that, but… apparently not. When I took down the PA Hall, I took half the
money that was in it and gave it to rhea. When I got to the store houses for
materials, a far majority of what had been in them was gone. All that was
really left was crap… so, of that, I grabbed what I could. After we merged,
Rhea complained to Valaar more than once that I had taken all the resources
we’d had & that they belonged to all of OG. In the end, Valaar told her to
let it go, he wouldn’t do anything about it. When I asked R&I about what
happened to all the harvesters I had made (including 3 fusion power
generators) they knew nothing about them. When I talked with Valaar about
this, he said he had seen the power generators specifically in one of their
houses he had access to at one point.

Rhea & indy pretty much quit talking to me after the merger. After the
bullshit with the resources and the deeds, I asked valaar to have them keep
their distance as it was beginning to smell like a load of shit to me. I was
willing to tough it out for a while, as I was sure they would screw up worse.
Well, as it would happen, Val was keeping a close eye on them, didn’t trust
them… but apparently enough to make rhea a moderator on their forums. She was
weaseling into their organization the same way she had mine… I warned him, but
my warnings have fallen upon deaf ears. After several weeks, Val never had
time to talk over future plans with me. I gave him several ways to get in
contact with me, but all he seemed to do was spend time with rhea and indy.
After the moderator bit, I had had enough and opted to call it quits. I
dropped most of my resources in what houses I had access to, closed up shop
and left. I spent around a month playing on starsider a bit… but quite
frankly, the game doesn’t hold the same appeal as it once had. A month or so
ago, I came back to Tarq for a bit and ended up hooking up with Cray, and a
few other former OG’ers in Crimson Guard… and that’s where I am now, when I
play… which isn’t much anymore.

[ryan]

And all that happened because the game sucked

[eyelleye]

Well... to some degree, I would have to say yes. Some things were, I think, a direct fault of the leadership in the breakup of our little guild... and others, well... SWG has always had a "lack" of things to do, in my opinion. We got ourselves to the "now what?" place and unfortunately never recovered. In other games that have a bit more exp under their belt, there isnt this problem really... so the fault for that lies directly on SWG.

I will say that I think the game is getting better... but, I also cant recommend it to my friends just yet (and certainly wouldnt try to convince anyone to come back atm). I have decided to play til the SE ships... play it for a bit, and then make my final decision. I have hopes that by then, the game will have matured a bit more... as the developers continue to learn about the desires of the community & continues to improve their game. I mean, look at Anarchy Online... after its horrendous launch, its still around (and not too bad these day's I've heard). There is hope for SWG, but Im affraid its going to be a while.

[Indiana]

I hope this is not deleted and you will let this stay here Eye, however I understand that it may well be removed and its your site. I have known about the change of address for the web page and I have been very reluctant to post becuase I felt you might delete what I'm going to post. However I tried to atleast say hello to you when I ran into in person last night at your shop and got no response ( I knew you were there cuase you moved around and did some things while I talked to Berowe and Cray I just figured you had me on ignore) so I decided I would come on here and atleast say hello to ya. Its good to see Red and Lane here, I have not seen Lane since I ran into him in FFXI and I quit playing over a month ago, Im looking forward to WoW as a couple of you all are as well, I signed up for beta this morning and Im hoping I get in *crosses fingers*

Im going to somewhat respond to what you said about the guild breaking up as I agree with some of the points you made. I'm not going to point fingers and say "this or that was wrong" and Im not going to say that the end result was good or bad for anyone, hind sight is always 20/20. I'll first address the house issue you stated where I lost my house due to not paying upkeep on it. Honestly I was scared to death since I had been given the house by Eye our guild leader and since I was on shakey grounds from some forums issues I didnt want to dig a bigger hole for myself, so I told Rhea in an on web page PM that I lost it and did not want Eye to know cuase I figured that would be the end for me. After the fact and Eye found out and he asked me about it and I told him straight up and we were able to work things out and things were good. Hind sight is 20/20. I probally should have told you (you being Eye) straight up what happened and you conveyed as much to me when we talked about the issue after the fact.

As far as the smuggling ring where prices were fixed for all sorts of things, and they were in the begining, and the passing of information for a price i never disclosed anything useful about OG, infact Fort China is still standing proud and I would like to say that as of the last check I made this week its good for another 70+ days. I did disclose our location north of Keren after we moved and set things up and Eye, I told you about that.

As far as the people that were willing to leave OG I feel I was accurate in my counting of active members and the percantage you said. As you know I had the PA hall ready to go as Cray now has it as the <CRMSN> guild hall and the city you currently live in. As far as current status most of the old guild is in a few seperated places or have since quit the game. Rhea, Darkolo, Bach, and I are with VADR, K'tan and his alt Tantan as well as Rawi, Lorick, Seken, Macharius and his alt are still with DGFleet, and most of those remaining in the game now are with Cray in <CRMSN> that being Barthus, Avaudo, Berowe, Soontir and those who live in the <CRMSN> city being Hethen and Zibeon with <DE> as well as yourself. I do not know about some of the other guys like Stroup or Brett but I see that Brett now makes armor under another name. At the time that the seperation was being discussed there were 14 poeple all together that were willing to leave OG for one reason or another. Some people flat out quit the game like China after OG split up.

In retro-spect merging with DG seemed like a quick fix, more of a change of scenery. Valaar (the CO of DGFleet) I had met thru slicing and spice sales and after talking with him alot, their guild encompassed several games which was attracting with FFXI and WoW comming out but that aspect was never discussed in OG and honestly was never a real point in making the final choices. I had spoke with Valaar several times about a few people comming over to their guild instead of trying to run one myself. Seeing Eye's problems with departments and tough decisions was not something I really wanted to undertake, that is just not something I could handle. At this point the discussion of splitting off from OG had been going on for a while adn word had spread to encompass some freinds of the gusy who wnated to go.

The night in question of the actual breakup occured after I had talked with Valaar for a while about the amount of people that would come over and some sort of structure. He asked about if Eye knew anything and I told him that he did not. A few min later Eye asked me about some guild things and I could not answer honestly so I told him about the split and there could possibly be a merging with DGFleet because Valaar seemed open to it. After moving over the word on the street was that Rhea nor myself was supposed to talk to Eye at all cuase he was mega pissed and I would assume rightfully so. I was told by Valaar to give you some space Eye and let things go as they would.

The badges were just a horrid experience I never want to go thru again. We spent many nights in that one area of the desert (sp?). As far as making it a guild thing we tried, so many people were dead set on leveling and badges were not important and they still aren't. I can say i spent many a night with you out there Eye while you were on Camber trying to get you the badge even after I had gotten it and you ended up getting it one morning while no one was around.

I can't agree with what you said about Rhea being a bitch but as you know my POV is alot different than your own. Most of the guild I would say looked to Rhea for orders cuase you were busy grinding us out a PA Hall and I don't think most everyone understood the situation. They knew you were grinding it out and you were the leader but Rhea enforced everything on your behalf at that time. My understanding is that you placed high expectations on her as you did all your other officers but your presence was not really felt across the board, I feel it was mostly due to time zone differences and playing times, you had two jobs and that prevented you from fully exerting the leadership role in game but you did so on the web page. I personally was guilty of not being on the web as much as I needed to be, even when you gave me my own department.

I was not bluffing about leaving OG but you should have called me out and let it happen, I think OG would still be around and be an influence.

Eye I dont think of you as a bad person or a bad leader, I do think the cirumstances leading up to the luanch of SWG and the expectations we had set were not what we wanted them to be and conceivable in game. We went thru a server change cuase we could not get all of us on the same one, we changed planets, and we went thru set backs with players we had at launch and trying to add new people. We all have ended up better players thru this whole experience.

I have no hard feelings towards you or what you have said, I understand its your point of veiw. Eye take this however you want and delete it or not, just know you can drop me a line and say hello and shoot the shiz anytime you want, I'll leave that up to you and if you want to or not, my feelings wont be hurt if you dont.

James
AKA- Indiana Reayle

[eyelleye]

Hey Indy, glad to see you stopped by. I'll at least start off by saying that I wont delete the post (for a few reasons actually). One, as I stated in my recollections... they were just that, my recollections. Memory isnt perfect... in fact, as studys are showing... its no where near as infalliable as we once thought (as in it doesnt act like a "video recorder" of sorts... something quite different actually). So, my recollections are my versions of events, thats it. I wont make excuses or anything like that for what I have said, as its how I remember it. So, thats one reason.

Another reason is I have nothing to prove and no-one to prove it to... lol. Some folks have asked (indeed in this very thread) for my version of events. I debated about posting them in the open or not... but when it comes down to it, I have nothing to hide. Again, I have attempted to preface my thoughts as they are my version of events... and are by no means complete. They arent even the complete thoughts as I remember them, merely what I thought some of the "downfalls" were.

Yet another reason is simply this... this is a discussion board. I am not in the habbit of just deleting alternative points of view when I dont necessarily agree with the individual. Valaar did that a time or two on his boards (which, they are his boards, he can do as he likes)... but, I cant say as I agree with that policy. So, while we might not agree on something & this may be my board... Im not going to try and rewrite history to conform with my version of events. I have always been of the opinion that discussions foster understanding, and through understanding we can grow as individuals & organizations.

I will say that, yes, I have had yourself and rhea on ignore in the lands of SWG for a while now... mostly, I have just needed some distance. I'd like to say Im all better now, blah blah blah... but I'm not. I had invested a small chunk of change and a year of my life in that organization just to see it all crumble & fall away... seemingly motivated by the folks I trusted most. I cant say as I understand that part of it, even now... but I don't focus on it. Mostly, these days, I think about what I would do differently. Suppose thats the nature of reflection.

We all know I wasnt always the best guild leader on the planet. Too many things going on and not enough time to do them all. I still work my 2 jobs and this time of year plow snow as well... so its damn near 3. Life's a bitch, you might say... but one has to do what one has to do to get ahead in life. End result was, of course, I didnt have enough time to spend in game... not as much "face time" as I would have liked. Additionally, being a crafter you aren't out in the trenches as much either.

I find the most enjoyment in SWG crafting, but in retrospect... heading right into architect was not the smartest of moves. The result of doing that was being locked away in a hole and not being able to spend much time in the trenches. If I had it to do differently, I would not have gone that route. Now, I suppose, its worked out OK... as at least I find enjoyment in that profession.

I think in hindsight... we were doomed to failure. Our problems were somewhat systemic... went to the bone. Part of the problem was the basic divisional structure of the organization. I realized that in the last month of our existance and was trying to work out how to best re-form the PA. The 5 council/divisions was something that was inherrited from the Obsidian Order days, and we just always kept it. When we were just a forum PA, it worked fine... but once the mechanics of the actual game came into play, that system failed miserably.

The truth of the matter was, we had no idea what the game was going to turn out to be. Once we found out... once I realized things were not working, it was, perhaps, too late. Such is the nature of the beast, however. Additionally, the support in-game was, and still is as far as Im concerned, totally lacking. After we established the PA hall, we were faced with the "now what?" So many gamers, both as PAs & individuals are faced with that question now... and as a result many of them are leaving the game. Yes, there are still things about the game that I like... but as a whole, it has failed us. It wasnt so much that it had a lot of hype to live up to (although I would argue it did)... but more that, it is just simply lacking. I would hope that in a year or two it makes up for that... but in its intial showing, I dont think its what anyone would consider the ideal MMO (if it was, why the total revamp of various systems like jedi? why the forcing folks to master all the professions in the game to keep them paying?). One can argue, I suppose, that the fault was with us... with the OG and my leadership of it... but, I would beg to differ. If it was just the OG, why have some of you split off further and headed to yet another PA (rhetorical question, I dont really want to know)?

Yes, we had our share of problems... too many I would say. Yes, there is a whole shitload of things I would do differently. Ultimately, I dont blame anyone for the fall of the OG but myself. Quite simply, I failed my friends. In my defense... it was my first go at heading a gaming organization. I made, I am sure, numerous newb mistakes... I placed my trust in the wrong people... I failed to make the right decisions and stand my ground on them... there is, certainly, a whole list of things. When it comes down to it, I did not do enough to keep it functioning, and now that part of my life is over. For a year, I did something that was fun, that gave meaning to my life... it was a challenge in so many ways, and it gave me something to look forward to. In the end, I'm left with this... and a few folks I still call friends.

eye

P.S. on my site you can say "shoot the shit." I generally swear like a mother fuckin trucker most of the time, so I dont really care... '-)

[hawkin']

i know Moogy/Elex, Topper and Dopper personally and it was good times when OG was in its prime.

We are remaking The old Og this saturday... Obsidian Overlord ...the old name before the OG

but its on Vazelle....

[eyelleye]

Actually, the old name of OG was OO: Obsidian Order...

But, as they say, all good things must come to an end.

[Cray]

Don't start quoting that Stupid Third Matrix movie Eye. It just brings a sad note to the Og's existance.
But it could be said as long as You, I and the other Ex Ogers in the Order are still playing that its memory will live on.

And maybe some of the wayward members that left will come back... I'd wait till the SE though. Game isn't worth 15 bucks at the moment if you already left. But for those of us that have tuffed it out, tleast a good game could come out of these next patches before the SE.

[James]

For some reason I never saw half this thread before...
We can all pinpoint the fall of OG, and it was me leaving, end of story :D
By the time I could get the game and play it, it was too late (Tho I managed to be about for a month or so before OG was no more)
Or maybe it was eye picking Rhea over Me...I didn't really think that gypsy curse on the eye for his mistake would actually work ;)

[eyelleye]

ROTFL... yeah, the loss of swiss was the end of us all, thats for sure... why, you can trace it back to a few pivitol moments, and by god, that was one of them!